Curse

studentochaos · Apr 03, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

You are also missing the point. The reason is you are pulling that quote out of a passage in which its context and therefore meaning is obvious- this is just quilting. May i direct you to:

http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

and read it real careful.

"GW game depth is being affected by rapid development cycles...not balance. The will to win remains the same...simply that depth at high level in the words of sirlin will get "shallower and shallower"."

Thats quoted from someone else who said what i wanted to say a lot smoother. I can't be bothered to continue this discussion - if it isnt apparant what i wanted to say then Ill come back and try again later.

Maybe you should read it again yourself. That quote doesn't apply to guildwars. When a meta game becomes shallow it is dominated by a single potential. Blood spike is not rainbow spike is not ranger spike. The strategy to counter or pressure those teams varies and the fact that the metagame is largely focused on Warrior offenses and spike teams does not mean every game is the same. He specifically list starcraft which *only* had three races, but an investigation of high play shows that changes in unit choice are nuanced but not meaningless. A Surge/Burn mesmer is a strong unit because he is flexible and consistant with enough empty space on his bar to have utility. In this space the differences florish and true variation appears. Why do you think others are posting about single skills? If the metagame grew shallower with age it would be stagnent and people would naysay anything other then "the build."

BuddyLeeX · Apr 03, 2006, 09:57 PM // 21:57

almost any gvg build with 3+ monks is considered attrition, even more so with the 2 edenial mesmers.

glenn_rolfe · Apr 03, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

I think the idea is that Surge/Burn mesmers aren't really difficult to play effectively, but that they're also really effective on a team. In theory, skills which require more player ability to use should have better returns when utilized at their peak (like Frenzy), and the current metagame/skillset doesn't allow for this.

.

Yep that's pretty much my point. Of course the better ones track their opponent energy very well, and can time their burns on weapon switches. But still, it's so freakin' basic.

Unfortuately, it not only locks down someone's energy, it also does damage which is a devastating combination. Whereas other mesmer builds I consider to be a lot more difficult to play just don't have the same reward that the far more simple version of surge/burn/sow/wrack can give.

icemonkey · Apr 03, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

playing the dom mesmer is not simple, its not easy, its not basic. Just like warriors when and how you switch targets matters, most monks protect tehmselves by staying away from teh mesmers safe in their battle lines. If you can spend the whole match just burning the same guy without any roadblocks thrown in yer way, well then it might as well be GvE

Divineshadows · Apr 03, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by icemonkey

playing the dom mesmer is not simple, its not easy, its not basic. Just like warriors when and how you switch targets matters, most monks protect tehmselves by staying away from teh mesmers safe in their battle lines. If you can spend the whole match just burning the same guy without any roadblocks thrown in yer way, well then it might as well be GvE

/qft

I think icemonkey's comments rain true of any of the dominant character builds for PvP no matter the primary class. While some look simple on the surface, once you learn to run that character well you learn that this was merely an illusion.

There were some earlier claims from others in this thread about lack of depth in the game of Guild Wars I think were misguided. A game can have very few dominant strategies and still have much more depth than a game that has a wider variety of dominant strategies. A game becomes "shallow" when it becomes solvable (such as 3 by 3 tic-tac-toe which should always result in a tie). Therein is why I stopped playing PvE -- with henchman or good guild groups it was solvable as the AI behaves in very predicatable ways and can be powergamed. A PvE PUG on the other hand makes PvE far from solvable...

Vindexus · Apr 03, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Surge/Burners are not easy to play to their full potential. They are fairly effective even if you suck at them, which is why people don't seem to think they require skill, but they do.

CAT · Apr 05, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheel

Uhh, this build is pretty much the metagame. It's pretty much either this or some form of spike. 2 surge/burn doms, 2 wars, 1-2 utility/flagger, 2-3 monks. It's been this way for quite some time. It doesn't counter the current metagame, really. For the most part, builds like this are hte metagame.

dom spike ftw

Yea... 2 mesmers 2 warriors and utility isnt exactly anything new...